Newbie  Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht:  |
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erstellt am: 12.4.2012 um 10:03 |
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Guten Morgen,
Auf den ersten, es tut mir leid, dass ich nicht in deutscher Sprache zu
schreiben!!!
Als ich in Sholl war in sowjetischer Zeit die deutsche Sprache war nicht zu
bevorzugen ...
Sie können freundlicherweise in Deutsch antworten, wie ich übersetzen kann,
Dank.
I have been reading this forum for almost two weeks and more I read then
less I understand from where I should start.
At moment I am brewing 20liters, but my current plan is to create from zero
really proper 2-3 vessel brewing system with target of 100L. In my region
we do not have yet any small "nano breweries" so that is my main target, if
that will be sucessfull then( part time job), next step up will be
200-400L, but that is future, first I want to make perfect 100L brewing
system and learn from that.
Germany is a closest big brewing country from Baltics, for that reason I
look for your centuries long experience.
I really have been inspired by brewpub in Berlin- Schalander hausbrauerei ,
but in same time I see over here american brutus style from Birk, or
interesting from Roemer46, Schraubi and some others.
So, my question would be, by your knowledge what you would do in 2012 year
to create 2 or 3 vessel system if your target would be
1.Gas, direct heating
2.99% will be brewed ales, or let say top fermenting beers
3.With this system to learn and later copy how to make 200-400L system also
direct fired
4.Fly sparging probably
5.2 or 3 system vessels pros and cons?
Vielen Dank im Voraus, ____________________ Zu trinken oder nicht zu trinken...
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Posting Freak   Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 12.4.2012 um 10:29 |
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Hi and welcome to the forum.
Many of the parts that I have purchased for my brutus 10 are very hard to
find here in Europe. Burners and automizing were the hardest parts to find.
Most of the parts I imported from the States. It is going to cost you some
money though. I can tell you that I have put close to 4000 Euros, perhaps
more, I am not really keeping track to build from absolutly nothing. I
moved to Germany in 2008 and had sold everything that I had for brewing
beer before I moved from California.
For my purpose though I am building such a device because:
- to keeps it's resell value high, should I wish to sell it
- the ability to grow with it to perhaps 300l or 400l if I choose something
like that (stand is 2 meters wide and can hold larger pots)
- mobility, I can put the entire brewery on a trailer and move it where I
want.
- ease of operation
- reduction in brew time
- The ability to be used in a business (should I decide going into the
craft brewer business here in Germany)
- This device would also serve as a stepping stone to get to a larger
brewery (everyone has to start somewhere)
This being said, I am not even sure I want to be a craft brewer yet, I
however have built the system in a way that will allow that if I choose to
go that route in my life. This being said what is your goal and needs for
such a system?
There are however, more economical ways of brewing without a brutus 10. I
would start by looking through ebay.de and finding some basic parts and
build ideas from that. Learn what is available here and what is not. Come
up with some sort of desgin and post it here in the forum, you WILL get
lots of ideas and suggestions. One thing I wish people did more of here is
to post pictures, so be sure to do that.
I think we also need a bit more information about you, your budget, your
level of brewing, amount of space you have and availability of tools.
So this should get you started, Good luck.
[Editiert am 12.4.2012 um 10:46 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 12.4.2012 um 11:46 |
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Dank Birk,
You are saying similar thoughts what I am thinking regarding idea of
brutus, but when I study this forum I see that some folks are using idea of
2vessel system so , because I lack personal experience 2 via 3 I would
kindly ask yours opinions.
So far as I see over here in my region good potencial as we do not have yet
any pub/craft brewery in my area, and already got some interest+ I am
making documents to become home brewer( what a byrocracy..), so my main
target is to spend some money to see if it works for me and for others, if
no, then I will have PRO homebrew system..
but if seriously, I have confidence that if I will create system what I do
understand and system understand me, then I will be able to make consistent
batches what sells.
Of course you are very true regarding that there is more economical ways to
create, but at some point you can't go below with in mind to upgrade later,
for examle you can use at beggining simple gas burner and later to adjust
for automatization, but you can't buy cheap SS 100L pots whith 0.5mm walls
and keep it happy.
1.So, I would like to ask a advise from you folks regarding 2 or 3 vessel
idea, what is all really behind that? And of course using direct gas
heating and target are ales+top fermenting.
2.About pictures, I would really agree, but sometimes you know...you do not
want to take bad quality pictures and so on..
3. My current budget is on low side, as I need to invest to renovate space
for brewing+water+licence+LPG gas + washing +fermenters +ingredients+++
In same time I do not believe that I can do less than 2000euros just for
good quality simple system, with possibility of upgrading. Still not sure
2-3 vessel system..
4.I do AG of course, I like infusion idea, and I do a lot of 2-3temp step
mashing and now I experiment with sparging flow rates
As you know every new system is a new challenge, so I am not affraid of
that, let say so.
5.Space what I could use in first moment would be about 50-60 m2, with high
ceilings.
6.At moment I am not investing anymore into my current system as I am
targeted for new system and there I will buy all necessary stuff, so looks
like I will spend some money into German economy...
And again-thanks for your willingness to help me to get sorted things. ____________________ Zu trinken oder nicht zu trinken...
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Antwort 2 |
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Senior Member   Beiträge: 287 Registriert: 23.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 12.4.2012 um 12:06 |
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the idea with the 3 vessel system is, that you can mash while you purify or
cook. also you can re-use warm water from the worthcooling e.g. for
mashing. its important for bigger brewerys for the heat regeneration and
lowering energy costs.
so you need 3x70L (cause of higher mash volume) vessels to create about 50L
per run. with 2 runs a day you get your 100L worth wich you can put into a
120L fermantation vessel.
its obviously, that you need a little more time (about a day) to get the
same amount of worth with that 3-vessel system.
but it should be less expensive than a 120L vessel (and heating/purifing
time is higher with 120L)
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Antwort 3 |
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 07:33 |
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Dank Knaecke,
Ok, after sleepless night I narrowed ideas and dropped off 2vessel system,
and will focuse all about 3vessel system.
I have digged WWW and found some interesting ideas around, would be
interesting to know your comments positive and negative.
1.As perfect "basic" system is like Birk has done
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthre
ad&tid=12001#pid129710
2.Found very very original system with easy unloading idea.
http://beerandcoding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hess_br
ewhouse1.jpg
3.Another idea of using gravity
http://morebeer.com/search/103471
4.Some crazy system, but also easy spent grain unloading
http://picasaweb.google.com/115444918296041688974/Bluto555F
rameBuildPhase1?gsessionid=GlHJrOMYTsSCIgSQNrFqig#5551136395975032178
5.What I did not fully understood from system what Tudo has build, what is
a biggest benefit of that stainless square kithen unit on very right, is
that as whirpooling thing?
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthre
ad&tid=12572#pid
6. What about those SS pots, are they good for gas? Or any better advise,
as I really do not want to spend on pots lik Birk has, ok they looks
fantastic and probably thick, but maybe we can find similar in EU.
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthre
ad&tid=12860#pid149254
Thanks
P.S. Sorry for bold, I don't know how it happen, can't change...I think
links are fixed.
[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 10:04 von Kauss]
____________________
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Antwort 4 |
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 07:36 |
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What kind of tools do you have? Do you know how to weld? Some of the links
are broken.
| Zitat von Kauss, am 13.4.2012 um
07:33 | Dank Knaecke,
Ok, after sleepless night I narrowed ideas and dropped off 2vessel system,
and will focuse all about 3vessel system.
I have digged WWW and found some interesting ideas around, would be
interesting to know your comments positive and negative.
1.As perfect "basic" system is like Birk has done
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php%3Fname%3DeBoard%26file%3D
viewthread%26tid%3D12001&usg=ALkJrhiyhq-C1vMe1GvITFWJk-o0TJjzYA#pid132139
2.Found very very original system with easy unloading idea.
http://beerandcoding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hess_br
ewhouse1.jpg
3.Another idea of using gravity
http://morebeer.com/search/103471
4.Some crazy system, but also easy spent grain unloading
http://picasaweb.google.com/115444918296041688974/Bluto555F
rameBuildPhase1?gsessionid=GlHJrOMYTsSCIgSQNrFqig#5551136395975032178
5.What I did not fully understood from system what Tudo has build, what is
a biggest benefit of that stainless square kithen unit on very right, is
that as whirpooling thing?
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php%3Fname%3DeBoard%26file%3D
viewthread%26tid%3D12572&usg=ALkJrhgFunLdmQR4W-33s7zp9fRarMCzEg
6. What about those SS pots, are they good for gas? Or any better advise,
as I really do not want to spend on pots lik Birk has, ok they looks
fantastic and probably thick, but maybe we can find similar in EU.
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php%3Fname%3DeBoard%26file%3D
viewthread%26tid%3D12860&usg=ALkJrhgqNwnjC9IFeAB_HYjxu7DNaFGdMw
Thanks
P.S. Sorry for bold, I don't know how it happen, can't change...
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[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 07:37 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 09:50 |
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If you mean hand tools, then everything what should be in garage
If seriously, then I have of course welding machine, but not for important
things, but I have 1.km away welding shop so no problems with SS welding or
anything from metal or plastic, and for very very reasonable prices.
P.S. Links are fixed, sorry.
[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 10:05 von Kauss]
____________________ Zu trinken oder nicht zu trinken...
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Antwort 6 |
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 10:01 |
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The tippy system of dumping spent grains I find important. After you build
the pots with all the valves, inserts and electronics they are heavy and
fragile. By using the tippy system, perhaps with a motor or lift it will
save time and effort.
You also have to consider in your design that clean up ease and time are
important as well. A great percentage of your time will be spent cleaning,
the tippy system comes in handy with that as well.
Take a look at this, a super simple tippy dump with no drilling or welding
on the pot:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/tippy-dump-blichmann-mash-t
un-266852/
[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 10:08 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 10:09 |
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What about your system, are you "happy" what you created?
If you any time in future will make new frame, will you insert tippy system
or easy unloading like on hinges?
I remember I so similar unloading system only with pneumatic to one of this
forum mebers, can't quickly remember.
____________________
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Antwort 8 |
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 10:13 |
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Wow, that is so simple idea, thanks!!!
But what is your thoughts regarding those pots (kettles) what I put on very
last link, from picture looks like one of the best available in EU? ____________________ Zu trinken oder nicht zu trinken...
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Antwort 9 |
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 10:17 |
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I have several ideas to create an advanced brewery, however, right now,
just the basics. Perhaps after I get the whole system setup, I will then
know what improvments are needed. I only recently found the weldless and
drilles tippy dump design and have not really put the thought into action,
however, I can see on the list of things to improve on a tippy dump system
would be good.
At the moment I am more concerned about cleaning though. I want to make a
wood from to hold the pots at a 120 degree angle upside down so that I can
wash them. Each pot with all the valves attached weighs a good 25kg. A
differerent design of a wash system that I am considering is to use a sump
pump, perhaps something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q-DHkeM1Xk
| Zitat von Kauss, am 13.4.2012 um
10:09 | What about your system, are you
"happy" what you created?
If you any time in future will make new frame, will you insert tippy system
or easy unloading like on hinges?
I remember I so similar unloading system only with pneumatic to one of this
forum mebers, can't quickly remember. |
[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 10:19 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 13.4.2012 um 10:23 |
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You can find other pots that are just as good, those are Mercedes Benz
pots, you could find some more VW priced pots here in Europe easliy. I find
that a sandwhich bottom is important (however that will increase costs),
Stainless steel and the right size. You should stay away from Aluminum as
the melting poing is about 650C and with a powerful burner they will melt.
Stainless steel has a melting point of 1510C.
| Zitat von Kauss, am 13.4.2012 um
10:13 |
Wow, that is so simple idea, thanks!!!
But what is your thoughts regarding those pots (kettles) what I put on very
last link, from picture looks like one of the best available in EU?
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[Editiert am 13.4.2012 um 10:29 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 14.4.2012 um 05:49 |
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There is another option though, and it may be much cheaper than building it
yourself. I had been talking last year with this brewstand company in the
States to import them here. I posted here online once and there was little
interest in these brew stands.
I am thinking for somewhere around 1000 Euros you can get a finished fully
welded brewstand (from mild steel) with all the burners and stuff like
that. Stuff that is impossible to find here in Germany.
The guy is very flexable and can get everything you need, including pots,
burners, etc...
This stand below takes apart and ships here easy (not sure of the price on
this one, but much cheaper than the fully welded version)
Take a look:
http://www.facebook.com/BrewSteel
If anyone is interested, I can get these for you.
[Editiert am 14.4.2012 um 06:04 von Birk]
____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 13:58 |
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Antwort 13 |
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3313 Registriert: 19.10.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 14:51 |
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Write your question in German and see what other people say as well, you
need to hear other peoples opinions as I do not own those pots, alot of
folks don't speak English and it is a good time to learn to write German. I
am not a perfect writer however most folks understand me. ____________________ http://www.AmiHopfen.com
Hopfen vom Ami, aus Amiland und anderswo
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Posting Freak  Beiträge: 3548 Registriert: 26.2.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 15:15 |
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As I can see, both pots ar from the same brand, the higher prices just
include ebay fees. I don't own Contacto pots, but those who do are happy
with them.
On your research you may step on Schengler. The insulated Thermoports -
although made in China - are excellent, but be warned: the Schengler POTs
are just biscuit tins.
cheers, Ruthard ____________________ Mein Blog: Brew24.com
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Antwort 15 |
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 18:24 |
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Dank Brauwolf,
Ich werde Gas, so dass ich nicht verwenden können, Wasserkocher
____________________
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Antwort 16 |
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Senior Member  Beiträge: 402 Registriert: 21.12.2011 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 18:45 |
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But pleaaaase dont use Google Translator without checking it, this makes NO
sense at all, sry 
Felix
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Antwort 17 |
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Newbie Beiträge: 9 Registriert: 24.3.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 18:56 |
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Ohh "Scheiße".... 
...sorry!!! ____________________ Zu trinken oder nicht zu trinken...
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Antwort 18 |
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Posting Freak Beiträge: 3548 Registriert: 26.2.2012 Status: OfflineGeschlecht: |
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erstellt am: 16.4.2012 um 19:02 |
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Antwort 19 |
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